|
Post by GO30 on Nov 20, 2023 12:15:11 GMT 12
And sorry but Fedex, DHL and others do fly lithium around the place. Are you taking about some chartered flight stuff? FedEx are very clear on their usa website that they will not ship standalone rechargeable lithium batteries or standalone cells. They also state that they consider a power pack, like the 16000mah one you have, a lithium battery and so it can nit be air freighted. It's written in black and white... www.fedex.com/en-nz/shipping-guide/pack/lithium-batteries.htmlDo you think FedEx just put that there on there website for shits and giggles? I think FedEx put it there for the same reason we and 1000's of other outfits say stuff out loud, it saves continually telling punters 'No due to blaa blaa blaa'.
Or legal has said to do so, you are referencing the Land of the Lawyers site.
Or it could be some confusion by the term 'stand alone' which suggest they will fly a Testra with battery in it but it's battery by itself. Or the understanding of what they are saying is not as clear as it could be. Or maybe something else
2 weeks ago FedEx picked up a pile of goodies in Vietnam and flew them to us here in NZ. Every item had a lithium, sorry 2 lithium batteries in them. We made no effort to disguise and I would have expected it was quite obvious they had batteries.
|
|
|
Post by harrytom on Nov 20, 2023 15:16:00 GMT 12
Are you taking about some chartered flight stuff? FedEx are very clear on their usa website that they will not ship standalone rechargeable lithium batteries or standalone cells. They also state that they consider a power pack, like the 16000mah one you have, a lithium battery and so it can nit be air freighted. It's written in black and white... www.fedex.com/en-nz/shipping-guide/pack/lithium-batteries.htmlDo you think FedEx just put that there on there website for shits and giggles? I think FedEx put it there for the same reason we and 1000's of other outfits say stuff out loud, it saves continually telling punters 'No due to blaa blaa blaa'.
Or legal has said to do so, you are referencing the Land of the Lawyers site.
Or it could be some confusion by the term 'stand alone' which suggest they will fly a Testra with battery in it but it's battery by itself. Or the understanding of what they are saying is not as clear as it could be. Or maybe something else
2 weeks ago FedEx picked up a pile of goodies in Vietnam and flew them to us here in NZ. Every item had a lithium, sorry 2 lithium batteries in them. We made no effort to disguise and I would have expected it was quite obvious they had batteries.
non passenger flight?
|
|
|
Post by fish on Nov 20, 2023 16:31:16 GMT 12
So with all this hand wringing about battery types, Can the brains trust here tell me what type of batter a Tesla has, and an Outlander PHEV? I've got a basic understanding they are lithium, but which one?
|
|
|
Post by ComfortZone on Nov 20, 2023 16:51:54 GMT 12
So with all this hand wringing about battery types, Can the brains trust here tell me what type of batter a Tesla has, and an Outlander PHEV? I've got a basic understanding they are lithium, but which one? Tesla's to date have mainly been a mix of Li-ions of the Nickel-Cobal- Aluminium and Nickel-Magensium- Cobalt types. They are now swinging over to Li Iron for the Model 3 and Model Y as they are achieving better life cycle out of these. Outlander is Li-ion, hard to determine version but appears to be NMC. There seems to be alot of unhappiness on-line that their batteries are degrading faster than people believe is reasonable On battery types used in cars www.whichcar.com.au/advice/ev-battery-types-explained-electric-car-pros-cons
|
|
|
Post by DuckMaster on Nov 20, 2023 17:35:56 GMT 12
Are you taking about some chartered flight stuff? FedEx are very clear on their usa website that they will not ship standalone rechargeable lithium batteries or standalone cells. They also state that they consider a power pack, like the 16000mah one you have, a lithium battery and so it can nit be air freighted. It's written in black and white... www.fedex.com/en-nz/shipping-guide/pack/lithium-batteries.htmlDo you think FedEx just put that there on there website for shits and giggles? I think FedEx put it there for the same reason we and 1000's of other outfits say stuff out loud, it saves continually telling punters 'No due to blaa blaa blaa'.
Or legal has said to do so, you are referencing the Land of the Lawyers site.
Or it could be some confusion by the term 'stand alone' which suggest they will fly a Testra with battery in it but it's battery by itself. Or the understanding of what they are saying is not as clear as it could be. Or maybe something else
2 weeks ago FedEx picked up a pile of goodies in Vietnam and flew them to us here in NZ. Every item had a lithium, sorry 2 lithium batteries in them. We made no effort to disguise and I would have expected it was quite obvious they had batteries.
Missed the point completely... FedEx website clearly says that they will ship any equipment containing lithium batteries (or cells) with the appropriate documentation. Even equipment where the battery is shipped with the equipment. It's "standalone" cells or "standalone" batteries that they flat out refuse to transport. So you can send a phone with the battery in it, but not the battery on its own... So why don't they allow standalone cells? Maybe it is just for shits and giggles after all...
|
|
|
Post by DuckMaster on Nov 20, 2023 18:03:42 GMT 12
Here's a scientific research paper on the thermal runaway of lfp: www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2095495620305234The findings of this paper are consistent with what I have already said: 1. Lfp doesn't catch on fire, but it gets so fucking hot that everything around it on a boat does. In this study they saw 300deg Celius from a 40ah lfp cell. 2. The most common cause of thermal runaway is due faulty electronics, such as a bms or a charger. Abstract: In this paper, overcharge behaviors and thermal runaway (TR) features of large format lithium-ion (Li-ion) cells with different cathode materials (LiFePO4 (LFP), Li[Ni1/3Co1/3Mn1/3]O2 (NCM111), Li[Ni0.6Co0.2Mn0.2]O2 (NCM622) and Li[Ni0.8Co0.1Mn0.1]O2 (NCM811)) were investigated. The results showed that, under the same overcharge condition, the TR of LFP Li-ion cell occurred earlier compared with the NCM Li-ion cells, indicating its poor overcharge tolerance and high TR risk. However, when TR occurred, LFP Li-ion cell exhibited lower maximum temperature and mild TR response. All NCM Li-ion cells caught fire or exploded during TR, while the LFP Li-ion cell only released a large amount of smoke without fire. Cells: Four 40Ah commercially available Li-ion pouch cells with different cathode materials (LFP, NCM111, NCM622 and NCM811) were tested in this study. The NCM622 and NCM811 Li-ion cells were manufactured by CITIC Guoan MGL Power Technology Co., Ltd. The suppliers of NCM111 Li-ion cell and LFP Li-ion cell are LG Chem and Beijing National Battery Technology Co., Ltd., respectively.
|
|
|
Post by harrytom on Nov 20, 2023 21:54:50 GMT 12
Did anyone see the fairgo tonight on batteries for toys?? The cheap pansonic come out on top over the expensive energizer ones. based on the $1 per hr usage The alkaline lasted longer due to curve of usage compared to the lithium. Lithium had initial charge but stopped like falling of a cliff Worked out alkaline $1 for 4.75 hrs use Lithium $1 for 75minutes use
|
|
|
Post by DuckMaster on Nov 21, 2023 6:27:03 GMT 12
|
|
|
Post by em on Nov 21, 2023 6:48:21 GMT 12
Did anyone see the fairgo tonight on batteries for toys?? The cheap pansonic come out on top over the expensive energizer ones. based on the $1 per hr usage The alkaline lasted longer due to curve of usage compared to the lithium. Lithium had initial charge but stopped like falling of a cliff Worked out alkaline $1 for 4.75 hrs use Lithium $1 for 75minutes use Were those rechargeable or throwaway ?
|
|
|
Post by fish on Nov 21, 2023 8:19:16 GMT 12
Which is why I went for the Lead-Carbon from ivent. You forgot the extra $500-$1,000 for the DC-DC chargers on that enertec price. PS, if you ask ivent nicely, you can get an additional discount. Worked for me. They had been running a discount in the Motor & Caravan Association Magazine, and for the asking applied it to my order. Think it was 10% or something (not a lot, but worth asking the question). And with the Lead-Carbon you get the partial state of charge capability, and the ability to charge at up to 30% of C (10-20% recommended). Basically you can charge 3 times faster than lead acid, and 30% of C of most house banks is going to be more than the average alternator can handle on most cruising boats. Oh, and if you really want it (to run the coffee maker or microwave) those lead-carbons can put out very high discharge currents. Personally I'm not sure why you would bother with Lithium when you can get the same functionality for a 1/4 of the price and a far simpler and lower risk install. PS it wasn't the alleged fire risk of lithium that made me go with Lead-Carbon, it was the 1/4 of the price, functionality (Partial state of charge, fast charging) and simplicity of the install that made me do it. Sometimes I think that Lithium are just 'on trend' and everyone wants one cause of marketing getting inside your head to think they are the latest and greatest. In many respects I think they are over-hyped.
|
|
|
Post by DuckMaster on Nov 21, 2023 9:24:57 GMT 12
PS it wasn't the alleged fire risk of lithium that made me go with Lead-Carbon, it was the 1/4 of the price, functionality (Partial state of charge, fast charging) and simplicity of the install that made me do it. It's rarely one thing that makes one make a choice... Fact is there's much more bits with a lithium-ion setup and many of those bits can fail causing worst case a fire and best case no power. Eg, I would never choose a boat with a canting keel. Although I know that keel bolts can rust through and keels can fall off, but all the moving parts and electronics in the canters put me off them...
|
|
|
Post by harrytom on Nov 21, 2023 12:28:46 GMT 12
Did anyone see the fairgo tonight on batteries for toys?? The cheap pansonic come out on top over the expensive energizer ones. based on the $1 per hr usage The alkaline lasted longer due to curve of usage compared to the lithium. Lithium had initial charge but stopped like falling of a cliff Worked out alkaline $1 for 4.75 hrs use Lithium $1 for 75minutes use Were those rechargeable or throwaway ? Throw away,seems the energizer bunny cant keep up,long term
|
|
|
Post by GO30 on Nov 22, 2023 8:06:53 GMT 12
I think FedEx put it there for the same reason we and 1000's of other outfits say stuff out loud, it saves continually telling punters 'No due to blaa blaa blaa'.
Or legal has said to do so, you are referencing the Land of the Lawyers site.
Or it could be some confusion by the term 'stand alone' which suggest they will fly a Testra with battery in it but it's battery by itself. Or the understanding of what they are saying is not as clear as it could be. Or maybe something else
2 weeks ago FedEx picked up a pile of goodies in Vietnam and flew them to us here in NZ. Every item had a lithium, sorry 2 lithium batteries in them. We made no effort to disguise and I would have expected it was quite obvious they had batteries.
non passenger flight? Absolutely, passengers are not allowed to sit over lithium. FedEx and DHL fly over 1000 aircraft between them and next to non carry passengers.
|
|
|
Post by GO30 on Nov 22, 2023 8:12:32 GMT 12
I think FedEx put it there for the same reason we and 1000's of other outfits say stuff out loud, it saves continually telling punters 'No due to blaa blaa blaa'.
Or legal has said to do so, you are referencing the Land of the Lawyers site.
Or it could be some confusion by the term 'stand alone' which suggest they will fly a Testra with battery in it but it's battery by itself. Or the understanding of what they are saying is not as clear as it could be. Or maybe something else
2 weeks ago FedEx picked up a pile of goodies in Vietnam and flew them to us here in NZ. Every item had a lithium, sorry 2 lithium batteries in them. We made no effort to disguise and I would have expected it was quite obvious they had batteries.
Missed the point completely... FedEx website clearly says that they will ship any equipment containing lithium batteries (or cells) with the appropriate documentation. Even equipment where the battery is shipped with the equipment. It's "standalone" cells or "standalone" batteries that they flat out refuse to transport. So you can send a phone with the battery in it, but not the battery on its own... So why don't they allow standalone cells? Maybe it is just for shits and giggles after all... Don't we always miss your points, even now being told I did I'm still missing the point I'm still missing what I'm suppose to have missed.
- Due to my vast expert knowledge around how FedEx runs and all it's policies plus the extensive years spend learning about transporting Lithium, Yes absolutely 100% for shits and giggles.
- Either that or I'm a random on the internet whom you know is a different field so only repeating what he knows as fact.
Your choice as to which option you'd like to run with.
|
|
|
Post by GO30 on Nov 22, 2023 8:55:40 GMT 12
Which is why I went for the Lead-Carbon from ivent. I thought for a moment you meant Lead Crystal. That's a goodie but suffers from tricky management. Just spoke to a mate whose deep into this shit and Lead Carbon are different. Lead Crystal is very good but due to tricky charging he's saying their experimenting with boats has not gone well. The charge rate has to be very high and steady, something most boats can't do. So they have bailed out of even suggesting them on recreationals even big ones apparently.
He backed up what Battery Guy said around Lithium terminologies. Many get confused around 'Ion' and 'Iron'.
But as the convo went on he told me the latest theories around battery banks is this. You drop in a 48V beasty, which is the 'go to' voltage in solar (they wanted me to go 48V but everything we have is 12 or 24 so why convert it all the time was my theory) and the like. You then get the 48V system tuned beautifully which should be easy as you are only dealing with one battery and not a cluster which can and has lead to many differing types of clusters. Then all are batteries after that one can run at whatever voltage you like off a DC-DC step down. Doing that means charging is simplified and the bank gets very steady constant unlike the usual up, down race rally and rolled most banks would in boats, many in solar and so on. The downstream batteries would love that steady constant and it would remove the ability to spike which can cause nasty shit i.e flames.
Thinking about it with my limited knowledge has me liking that idea a lot. If I went lithium in rural or marine I'd definitely go that way now, it makes so much more sense in many ways.
He also said due to WTF regulations he is seeing authorities OK the use of Lithium for starting batteries but not allow them as house bank. They are struggling with that.
Also the only 2 approved batteries for Marine under the MNZ system are Mastervolt and Victron (98% sure it was Victron). Both monitor individual cells and to comply your BMS has to monitor down that deep.
The biggest issue they see around lithium is coincidently the same one we see here also "The Internet said..........." i.e. people preferring the information from who the fuck knows on the web rather than people who have done it and live it every day. When getting him to drill down on issues he said the biggest problem most batteries have is the charging system not being matched to the battery chemistry. Coincidently we see the same thing here, people looking at an anchor as an individual item and not as part of a 'system'.
|
|