mihit
Junior Member
Posts: 70
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Post by mihit on Oct 8, 2024 12:51:48 GMT 12
delete
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Post by eri on Oct 8, 2024 14:34:57 GMT 12
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Post by harrytom on Oct 8, 2024 18:57:49 GMT 12
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Post by fish on Oct 8, 2024 20:07:55 GMT 12
This video blog channel has some interesting info. The AIS was off for the voyage from NZ to Samoa (I understand they stopped at Roall on the way as they had 3 GNS guys onboard that serviced the monitoring equipment there). They didn't turn the AIS on again until they had ran aground. From the AIS position, they have ran aground on the well chartered reef.There are more photos than what we have seen in the NZ media, but mainly of Samoan rescue crew and sailors on the beach post rescue. Something that has not been shown in NZ media, and something I was curious about, was the actual location of the sinking on a chart. Not hard to find the info, but very damaging and very bad PR for them to admit it was on a well chartered reef. That point brings me back to the question of when the areas were surveyed. Minister Collins says they were in an area that wasn't surveyed since 1984. That is a nonsense. The charts show that 1984 area is ocean around Samoa. The inshore area is different. There is a band of unsurveyed area, and the near shore / reef area is shown as LINZ 2011. So, they were either in an uncharted area, and should have proceeded with extreme caution, or they smacked into a well chartered reef. Collins is utterly wrong, and it would appear she is lying. Now it turns out they hit a chartered reef. Going to be really hard to explain that. There is some talk of mechanical failure - which wouldn't be a problem if you weren't so close to the reef. And no, they were not surveying, it was 6:56 pm and they had finished for the day. Being that close to a chartered reef is just poor seamanship. Nothing more, nothing less. I see a lot of cover-up / misinformation coming forth from our govt already. That they can't or wont give the basic information as to how it grounded indicates it is a really simple fuck up, and they are trying to get people to loose interest by kicking it to a commission of inquiry. Sounds like the power pylon that fell over. Or the interisland ferry that couldn't turn off the autopilot, or the other interisland ferry that almost wrecked on a rocky coast with 850 people onboard cause a $130 rubber expansion joint wasn't replaced. Relevant bit on location of sinking is at 6:30 min www.youtube.com/watch?v=cR85gqVwbWQ |
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Post by ComfortZone on Oct 8, 2024 21:35:52 GMT 12
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mihit
Junior Member
Posts: 70
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Post by mihit on Oct 9, 2024 7:07:45 GMT 12
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Post by sloopjohnb on Oct 9, 2024 9:35:40 GMT 12
Some conflicting stories about this.....
The caption has said it dark and rough seas but the photos I have seen it looks pretty flat.
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Post by fish on Oct 9, 2024 10:07:20 GMT 12
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Post by fish on Oct 9, 2024 18:14:03 GMT 12
I've seen a couple of references that the Manawanui was trialing biofuel. Non of those references were especially reliable, and on first glance would not appear to have anything to do with running the ship into a well chartered reef. It would explain why there doesn't appear to be too much concern about the fuel getting into the environment, being biofuel it should be perfectly safe for turtles to eat.
But it turns out that biofuel doesn't go well in the tropics. The heat can cause it to separate, leading to large fatty globby bits that block filters like a bastard. Apparently, if you block your filters enough the engines die and you go to dark ship...
This from someone that has seen it before and seems to have some knowledge.
I'm a structural surveyor of admittedly white boats, I have extensive sea time both here and the tropics... I've been thinking (not sinking)... there are many similarities between the vessels I work on and ships... before you say I don't have experience in ships that may be true, but many of the systems are the same and many of the actual peices of equipment are identical but painted a different color...
Anyway, I was thinking about the Bio Fuel HMNZS Manawanui was running and recalling when I was on a vessel as a guest in the tropics running similar fuel... we had a complete power failure because the gensets shut down... Now on a big yacht (50m) much of the power is used for champagne fridges but we were diesel electric with 4 gensets and electric drives somewhat similar to Manawanui... We had a fifth genset for emergency power but half the KVA and it could not drive or power the fridges much to the owners disgust... It did run the anchor windlass deck crane if necessary and charged the batteries powering navigation and control systems but could not drive the props in any way. The backup power came up automatically within 5 minutes and we had the anchor windlass and some sail control systems available... We anchored in deep water (46 meters) with all our chain out and enough swing room for a battleship... We were safe. The sea state calm and the wind light.
HMNZS Manawanui didn't have that luxury.
The up shot was that we were using bio fuel because the owner had a bio fuel tech company and obviously he wanted to use it. The huge problem was that the Bio Fuel clogged the Racor fuel filters and the engineer had been changing cartridges daily but the skipper wasn't aware this was anything other than a normal routine. The shut down was caused by fuel starvation across all gensets due to clogged filters not only the Racors but the secondary filters on the engine itself.
Ultimately the crew sorted the problems while I went back to sipping champagne and observing them at their work... all was well in the end.
Things I learned.
1. Don't use bio fuel in the tropics and ultimately the vessel mentioned dropped bio fuel for its tropical cruising. I can't remember exactly but the fuel changes viscosity and breaks down at elevated temperatures... Breaks up and causes fatty globs if my memory serves... Some of you will know way more than I do on this subject I don't pretend to be a chemist.
2. Diesel electric vessels take much time to restart should the genset (s) shut down... our experience was minimum of 5 minutes for emergency power propulsion came back up in 1 hour but effectively only limp mode... What happens if you have no sea room big sea state and no propulsion... Disaster.
Unfortunately we can only speculate on HMNZS Manawanui... but for me having seen this scenario play out in a half serious white boat where we had little danger or weather around us I can only imagine the horror of those on a survey ship in dangerous waters with no power, high sea state, wind, no sea room, and 50 meters or more to anchor in.
I salute their abilities to get everyone off alive with only a few suffering only minor injurues.
It's time to accept that this is an accident and be the maritime professionals we are and acknowledge the monumental difficulties the crew faced.
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Post by ComfortZone on Oct 10, 2024 8:32:04 GMT 12
this guy does not hold back goodoil.news/is-the-nz-navy-fit-for-purpose/excerpt The sunken Manawanui was a survey/research vessel. It was doing survey work in Samoan waters when, under the control of Yvonne Gray, it sank to the bottom of the ocean. Surveying has been an important function of the Royal New Zealand Navy since its creation in World War II. Before that hydrographic surveys were carried out by the Royal Navy, which defended the seas around our coasts until the 1940s. The centuries-old principle of surveying is that the surveying vessel – or ‘mother ship’ if you like – stays out at sea while the inshore surveying is done by the ship’s small boats: that way they can get in and out of shallow waters, reefs and even river mouths. They then return to the survey vessel where the charts are drawn up. So why did Commander Gray take this large and valuable ship so close to the reef?
Her deficient command of the vessel risked the lives of the crew, who fortunately managed to reach the shore on rafts virtually without injury. Their lives had been endangered but, with their good training, they got themselves off safely.
And yet Minister of Defence Judith Collins called this a “triumph”. And she went out of her way to praise Gray. This reaction was part of the feminist movement of which Collins is a fully paid-up member. It was Collins who, as minister of justice, appointed the ill-qualified Susan Devoy to be race-relations commissioner even though she had no knowledge or experience of the issue and made a complete hash of it. But she had the feminist haircut and that was all that seemed to matter. Collins also praised Commander Gray for “saving lives” – lives that wouldn’t have had to be saved had her captaincy not put the vessel on the seabed. |
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Post by fish on Oct 10, 2024 8:52:25 GMT 12
Getting the Navy to investigate how the Navy sunk a $100 million dollar ship on a well chartered reef is like getting Ti Pati Maori to investigate voter fraud.
They haven't event determined the terms of reference of the inquiry, and have already said they will keep from the public any bits they deem the public shouldn't know...
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Post by harrytom on Oct 10, 2024 10:19:56 GMT 12
The question for me is,surveying on a lee shore with a swell in the dark,who gave the order to proceed?/The Leso did.Needs to held accountable with court martial
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Post by fish on Oct 10, 2024 14:27:50 GMT 12
Navy speaking with forked tongue. They can't even be honest about it leaking oil, how on earth are they going to be honest when conducting an inquiry on themselves?!?! New Zealand's deputy chief of navy says there are no oil leaks coming from the sunken Manawanui, but that officials are monitoring the situation closely. His comments conflict with Samoa's Marine Pollution Advisory Committee deep sea divers, who have confirmed the sunken vessel is leaking diesel fuel into the ocean, off the south coast of Upolu.The ship was carrying about 950 tonnes of diesel at the time it hit the reef on Saturday night, caught fire and then sank early on Sunday morning. The committee is also reporting drone video and stills photography have confirmed the wreck is emitting contaminants into the water. However, Commodore Andrew Brown told Morning Report his latest update Thursday morning was that the oil was contained. RNZ reporter Louise Ternouth is on Samoa's southern coast and went out on the water with the defence force on Wednesday. "Before we were even told we had reached where the vessel was - which took up to an hour to get out there - you could smell it, you could smell the pungent petrol fumes and we knew we were in the right spot. "We also saw an oil slick on the water which the New Zealand Defence Force maintains is residual fuel from the initial sinking." www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/530342/watch-judith-collins-faces-questions-amid-conflicting-reports-about-manawanui-leak |
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mihit
Junior Member
Posts: 70
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Post by mihit on Oct 10, 2024 17:40:55 GMT 12
Female reporter eh. Well which is it, could she smell petrol fumes, or non-volatile diesel oil?
RNZ reporter Louise Ternouth is on Samoa's southern coast and went out on the water with the defence force on Wednesday. "Before we were even told we had reached where the vessel was - which took up to an hour to get out there - you could smell it, you could smell the pungent petrol fumes and we knew we were in the right spot. "We also saw an oil slick on the water which the New Zealand Defence Force maintains is residual fuel from the initial sinking." |
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mihit
Junior Member
Posts: 70
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Post by mihit on Oct 10, 2024 17:55:53 GMT 12
The question for me is,surveying on a lee shore with a swell in the dark,who gave the order to proceed?/The Leso did.Needs to held accountable with court martial It was after hours. They were not surveying at the time of the f*ckup. |
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