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Post by fish on Oct 10, 2024 18:43:05 GMT 12
Female reporter eh. Well which is it, could she smell petrol fumes, or non-volatile diesel oil?
RNZ reporter Louise Ternouth is on Samoa's southern coast and went out on the water with the defence force on Wednesday. "Before we were even told we had reached where the vessel was - which took up to an hour to get out there - you could smell it, you could smell the pungent petrol fumes and we knew we were in the right spot. "We also saw an oil slick on the water which the New Zealand Defence Force maintains is residual fuel from the initial sinking." The term the navy has been using is automotive diesel oil. I don't know exactly what that is, but I don't think it is exactly the same as regular diesel. But I digress, the whole point in terms of environmental response is they are saying this diesel oil is far far lighter than bunker fuel, and it will evaporate much quicker / easier. So if the lady report can smell fuel fumes, she can smell fuel fumes. That she is probably only familiar with petrol and not all the sub-types of different fuel oils isn't a major. In this context the difference between petrol, diesel and automotive diesel oil is irrelevant. The fact that the ocean stinks of means it IS LEAKING, when the NZ Navy said it is not. The story is the Navy are lying through their teeth on this already, and we haven't even gotten started on the inquiry. I note Collins was doing some excellent diversion in the media today from the lies she and the Rear Admiral are putting out, getting stuck into a truck driver from Melbourne of all people for making misogynists' comments about the DEI hire sinking the ship. Sure, as the first female defense minister she probably feels obliged to call out social media posts, it gave red radio a nice headline, but I am really wanting a journalist in NZ to grow a back bone and really challenge the Minister and the Navy on what the fuck is going on. We can already see they pranged it onto a well chartered reef, and now they are blatantly lying about it leaking fuel. Getting nit-picky about whether the journo can smell diesel or petrol is just another distracting diversion from the actual issue. The Navy and Govt blatantly lying. |
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Post by Fogg on Oct 10, 2024 20:52:27 GMT 12
True that.
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mihit
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Post by mihit on Oct 11, 2024 3:20:14 GMT 12
My base assumption is that the government is lying, that kinda goes without saying. I'm not even sure why anyone still believes in government, but there they are. But... petrol is volatile and has a pretty obvious reek to it. Diesel is not. I'm also fairly sure diesel will not evaporate at even tropical temperatures? I would bet that most people could identify petrol fumes, but most would not pick diesel/oil. Now I've never put my nose to an oceanic fuel spill but having a "reporter" stating things as facts, which are not facts, has caused the term "fake news" which is not helpful to the actual facts. And of course the whole thing will either be whitewashed by tax-funded consultants, or buried in commissions of inquiries to the terms of reference of the scope of the frame of the extenuating factors relevant to the exigent circumstances as it can be applied with understanding and compassion and regard for the principals of inclusivity and iso9001 compliant relevancy... (By the way I'm available for hire or consultancy if any office wants to hire me to string a bunch of bullshit words together  Or they will just wait a few news cycles until the public forget about it and call everyone who questions it a right-wing conspiracy theorist. |
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Post by ComfortZone on Oct 11, 2024 8:09:13 GMT 12
Female reporter eh. Well which is it, could she smell petrol fumes, or non-volatile diesel oil?
The term the navy has been using is automotive diesel oil. I don't know exactly what that is, but I don't think it is exactly the same as regular diesel. But I digress, the whole point in terms of environmental response is they are saying this diesel oil is far far lighter than bunker fuel, and it will evaporate much quicker / easier. |
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Post by ComfortZone on Oct 11, 2024 8:12:29 GMT 12
weird stuff going on here, this was my intended post This is quite strange and most likely incorrect terminology, in the marine world there are 3 classifications typically used Marine Diesel oil, this is typically the same as used in automotive applications, typically classified as No 1 and No 2, No 1 has a higher Cetane rating (NZ diesel is required to have a minimum Cetane rating of 51, . Jet A and No 1 diesel are quite close in properties Marine Gas Oil, is an ultra low sulphur diesel used in Low Emission Zones, down side is its lubricating properties are not as good as regular diesel. engines need to be designed specifically to run on it. Heavy Fuel Oil, is the sludgey stuff, contrary to popular belief ships engines do not burn this directly, they have on board plants to remove the bulk of contaminants and have to collect and the recovered waste for discharge in port. maritimepage.com/what-are-mgo-and-mdo-fuels-marine-fuels-explained/Cannot find any info on the Engine model in Manawanui, just the description that there were 4 x 1,920kW generators. Could be Cats, Cummins, MTU's or several other options |
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Post by ComfortZone on Oct 11, 2024 8:26:53 GMT 12
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Post by em on Oct 11, 2024 8:37:56 GMT 12
weird stuff going on here, this was my intended post This is quite strange and most likely incorrect terminology, in the marine world there are 3 classifications typically used Marine Diesel oil, this is typically the same as used in automotive applications, typically classified as No 1 and No 2, No 1 has a higher Cetane rating (NZ diesel is required to have a minimum Cetane rating of 51, . Jet A and No 1 diesel are quite close in properties Marine Gas Oil, is an ultra low sulphur diesel used in Low Emission Zones, down side is its lubricating properties are not as good as regular diesel. engines need to be designed specifically to run on it. Heavy Fuel Oil, is the sludgey stuff, contrary to popular belief ships engines do not burn this directly, they have on board plants to remove the bulk of contaminants and have to collect and the recovered waste for discharge in port. maritimepage.com/what-are-mgo-and-mdo-fuels-marine-fuels-explained/Cannot find any info on the Engine model in Manawanui, just the description that there were 4 x 1,920kW generators. Could be Cats, Cummins, MTU's or several other options Looks like it’s entirely diesel powered , no info on the generator “engines “ . But then the navy most likely did a refit of the generators or at the least a rebuild before commissioning so the below info is hazy . www.ship-technology.com/projects/edda/?cf-viewP.S on navy FB page from 2018 it’s stated that it got two new “Diesel” generators fitted in Denmark before it left for NZ |
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Post by Fogg on Oct 11, 2024 12:38:03 GMT 12
I would hope there’s minimal details about the tech specs online.
It’s a bloody warship for goodness sake! 🙄
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Post by harrytom on Oct 11, 2024 13:10:13 GMT 12
The question for me is,surveying on a lee shore with a swell in the dark,who gave the order to proceed?/The Leso did.Needs to held accountable with court martial It was after hours. They were not surveying at the time of the f*ckup. May not of been surveying at the time or finished work for the day.Why wouldnt you steam a miles out to sea away from the reef? |
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Post by fish on Oct 11, 2024 13:17:56 GMT 12
I would hope there’s minimal details about the tech specs online. It’s a bloody warship for goodness sake! 🙄 Erm, it was a commercial vessel painted grey. Nothing warship about it. Ex Norwegian oil platform ship. Besides, you are still using the present tense, should be using the past tense, it is gone now, and it ain't coming back. |
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Post by Fogg on Oct 11, 2024 15:38:53 GMT 12
But if it was re-purposed from commercial to military use - including various systems upgrades - why put that info in the public domain unnecessarily?
101 of military SOPs.
If NZ is important enough to be part of 5 Eyes then at least try a bit harder at the basics.
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Post by ComfortZone on Oct 11, 2024 16:28:08 GMT 12
I would hope there’s minimal details about the tech specs online. It’s a bloody warship for goodness sake! 🙄 would seem not, see for Canterbury, includes engine and armament specs |
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Post by Fogg on Oct 11, 2024 17:04:53 GMT 12
And these are probably naively truthful.
Whereas you can be sure that most other Navies will be publishing deliberately incorrect info to confuse enemy analysts.
Coming from a family historically linked to UK military intelligence I am confident of this. 😊
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Post by fish on Oct 11, 2024 17:18:50 GMT 12
If NZ is important enough to be part of 5 Eyes then at least try a bit harder at the basics. Like, ere, not hitting well chartered reefs, setting your ship on fire and sinking it? Like, those basics? |
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mihit
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Post by mihit on Oct 12, 2024 6:19:20 GMT 12
It was after hours. They were not surveying at the time of the f*ckup. May not of been surveying at the time or finished work for the day.Why wouldnt you steam a miles out to sea away from the reef? Time may tell. One unsubstantiated rumour was that they had holed further out and were running for shore. My personal suspicion is they were aiming for the inlet/harbour a bit further west, nav error, maybe got distracted by all the pretty lights. Even allowing a power failure, bridge dark, gps and radar down, failing to observe waves breaking on a reef is certainly neglected watch/look out.
Anyone know if they had LiPo batteries on board? A runaway fire on them would be pretty disastrous, and unless the cells were actually fitted with manual-control internal fire supression, there's no way they could have put them out. Heard about mossad exploding pagers? anyone notice you generally can't remove the battery from devices nowdays and all BMS are electronically controlled?
If it was LiPo batteries, and the system was hacked, it could have actually been an attack.
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