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Post by ComfortZone on Oct 22, 2024 16:03:35 GMT 12
www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2024/10/hmnzs_manawai.htmlA reader observes: Updated … I’m told from a reliable source that the ship left Devonport with the back up generator non operational. Manawanui had two main engines run off one switch board. When the switch board failed (caught fire) both main engines were knocked out and with the back up generator u/s it was all over rover. If that is correct then heads will surely roll. The guy is a bit short on his facts, Manawanui had 4 main propulsion generators, a "harbour" generator and an emergency generator. Depending upon configuration the power generators may feed to one common or 2 separate switchboards, with load control management determining how many engines are running at any given time. Yes, as has been noted before this was a commercial ship, not a warship so will have less levels of redundancy
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Post by Fogg on Oct 22, 2024 16:06:25 GMT 12
This triggered a memory from a couple of years ago involving the ‘Mooee’
I was on Fogg near Tiri on a calmish day when an old launch about 1nm away called a Mayday due to hitting an object, springing a big leak and taking in water faster than the pumps could evacuate it. They turned straight for GH hoping to make it before sinking.
I joined them and motored Fogg 50m alongside on a parallel course so they knew that if the worst happened I could pick them up.
Mooee was exercising in the Gukf and decided it would be a good idea to send a couple of RIBs with big portable pumps to lend a hand.
Good idea.
A little while later Mooee herself decided to join in.
Bad idea.
She proceeded to pull a big, fast turn around both Fogg and the casualty at about 15kts kicking up a lovely big wake. This nearly ended things for the casualty but they somehow kept going and made it back to GH. Having been nearly sunk by the Mooee but saved by their mobile pumps.
I remember thinking it was a pretty poor display of seamanship from a so-called professional navy.
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Post by GO30 on Oct 23, 2024 8:26:03 GMT 12
I've grown up around the Navy, even married a navy brat.
The number of serving Navy I'd lend my dingy too I could count on the fingers of one hand. The knowledge of sailing, boat handling and general seamanship like stuff is minimal at best. Don't make the mistake of thinking just because someone is in the Navy they know boats, most have no experience of boats bar a dingy for duck shooting in deepest Taranaki. When you think about it most have no need to know boats.
Some years back a Navy Chief was expressing displeasure at having to change the props on the SAS sneak attack boats after training exercises. After they went on night Nav exercises most props got rogered, and we are talking SS racing props not the cheap ones. The Chief knowing I was a Naviguesser and sailing instructor asked me if I had any ideas. I chatted to one of the boats crews, 3 to a boat and experience of high speed craft was about zero until they got thrown into a high speed craft. They went thru a Nazy Nav course which in sussing I found never taught about Compass deviation, variation yes but not deviation. In the craft the Compass sat on top of a centre consol full of instruments and batteries. I took the Chief out and we swung one of the compasses to find it over 25 degrees out in places. So we swung all the compasses and corrected the cards, the next night training exercise none of the boats went up Maraetai beach at pace while the crews thought they were just off Ostend.
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Post by GO30 on Oct 27, 2024 7:47:03 GMT 12
As the Aussies are going thru their version of Cook Strait ferry replacement a big opportunity has arisen. Theses new boats are for the Strait called Bass.
The Aussie ferry project is Govt run so its a fuck up as anything like that always is, what was supposed to be 900mil has blown out to 'secret' but 1.4bill is a number being used. But it doesn't stop there, one ferry is launching now, the second in 6 months. The wee niggle is the berths for these new boats will not be ready for another 2 years, so the boats can't be used.
NZ can rent the 2 Aussie ones and during the 2years find a suitable organisation to sort out the project in a manner that a Govt couldn't even understand let alone action itself.
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Post by harrytom on Nov 2, 2024 3:09:38 GMT 12
So the Auto pilot has a switch that you hold down for 5 sec to turn off? Ok being computerized but surely a simple emergency switch of power off would of done the job,flick/push .job done? Physically turn wheel wheel/toggle steer automatically disengages, bit like touching car brake and cruise control off.
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Post by ComfortZone on Nov 2, 2024 7:58:37 GMT 12
So the Auto pilot has a switch that you hold down for 5 sec to turn off? Ok being computerized but surely a simple emergency switch of power off would of done the job,flick/push .job done? Physically turn wheel wheel/toggle steer automatically disengages, bit like touching car brake and cruise control off. The video does not actually discuss the headline title but does provide a good breakdown of the timeline Don't know if DEI was an issue, but lack of training certainly was and possibly confusion about who was in command when you read this excerpt from
On 21 June alongside the day and night master, an additional experienced master was also onboard refamiliarising themselves with the ship, and was pilot instead of the night master.
Also present was an officer of the watch, a lookout and a helmsman.
A reporter asked TAIC whether the so-called "refamiliarisation officer" was being adequately supervised by the night master.
The co-pilot or night master was the final decision-maker, Clarke said, but at the time he was carrying out the additional function of familiarising another master with the vessel's controls, which was a separate process to the unfolding event.
It is notable when you compare the recent successful defence of the Americas cup, where the boat is engineered and maintained to near perfection and crew are selected purely on merit and trained intensely, to the Aratere and Manawanui where there are questions on all of these factors.
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mihit
Junior Member
Posts: 70
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Post by mihit on Nov 2, 2024 8:53:54 GMT 12
The co-pilot or night master was the final decision-maker, Clarke said, but at the time he was carrying out the additional function of familiarising another master with the vessel's controls, which was a separate process to the unfolding event.. There is no "but", following "master" And at that, the buck actually stops with whomever appointed the watch/master, ie, Captain of the ship. Maybe should have been busy familiarising they/them/xem self with the " all astern" controls eh. |
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mihit
Junior Member
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Post by mihit on Nov 2, 2024 8:57:30 GMT 12
And I mean, does it matter who is in harge if what, three? four? different people on the bridge notice they're heading straight for a reef?
I'd expect a bloody cook, if they knew about it, to take action.
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Post by fish on Nov 2, 2024 9:03:14 GMT 12
So the Auto pilot has a switch that you hold down for 5 sec to turn off? Ok being computerized but surely a simple emergency switch of power off would of done the job,flick/push .job done? Physically turn wheel wheel/toggle steer automatically disengages, bit like touching car brake and cruise control off. There was a headline on RNZ the other day, when the TAIC report came out: All Crew Now Trained in How to Turn Off Auto-Pilot - Kiwirail |
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Post by ComfortZone on Nov 2, 2024 11:19:41 GMT 12
So the Auto pilot has a switch that you hold down for 5 sec to turn off? Ok being computerized but surely a simple emergency switch of power off would of done the job,flick/push .job done? Physically turn wheel wheel/toggle steer automatically disengages, bit like touching car brake and cruise control off. There was a headline on RNZ the other day, when the TAIC report came out: All Crew Now Trained in How to Turn Off Auto-Pilot - KiwirailIt's a bit like many years ago when an NAC plane (remember them) crashed in the shallows at Mangere, the rescue hovercraft was out of action and they could not get the outboards on their inflatables going. The then minister of transport, who looked like he was 3 sheets to the wind, when being interviewed remarked about the inflatables "well they had oars didn't they"! |
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Post by ComfortZone on Nov 2, 2024 11:22:19 GMT 12
The co-pilot or night master was the final decision-maker, Clarke said, but at the time he was carrying out the additional function of familiarising another master with the vessel's controls, which was a separate process to the unfolding event.. There is no "but", following "master" And at that, the buck actually stops with whomever appointed the watch/master, ie, Captain of the ship. Maybe should have been busy familiarising they/them/xem self with the " all astern" controls eh. Totally agree with the Captain being ultimately responsible. I was reinforcing the absurd situation that with all the "talent" on the bridge, no one knew how to undertake a very simple task.
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mihit
Junior Member
Posts: 70
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Post by mihit on Nov 2, 2024 11:52:51 GMT 12
the absurd situation that with all the "talent" on the bridge, no one knew how to undertake a very simple task. [/div][/quote] What a beautifully apt metaphor for the government! |
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mihit
Junior Member
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Post by mihit on Nov 5, 2024 19:09:17 GMT 12
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dp
Full Member
Posts: 135
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Post by dp on Nov 7, 2024 13:45:30 GMT 12
Just got told the full story on the Manawanui. Shocking!
Will probably never be disclosed.
There was no loss of power. The ship hit the reef tearing a slot in the hull like the titanic. It ruptured the fuel tanks. The ship listed. They lowered liferafts in the fuel covered water. Total clusterfuck
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Post by ComfortZone on Nov 7, 2024 14:04:52 GMT 12
Just got told the full story on the Manawanui. Shocking! Will probably never be disclosed. There was no loss of power. The ship hit the reef tearing a slot in the hull like the titanic. It ruptured the fuel tanks. The ship listed. They lowered liferafts in the fuel covered water. Total clusterfuck So she was driven onto the reef. Did your informant divulge what the hell they were doing there?
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