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Post by Military on Oct 6, 2024 15:38:43 GMT 12
She'll get a medal for saving the crew. Well deserved more like a court martial. With the equipment that ship had there will be no excuse for running aground,unless mechanical failure,even then not an excuse. Looking old world navigators. Got from England back England using a compass/sextant no charts. She'll be cleared and have a new command within 12 months. |
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Post by harrytom on Oct 6, 2024 15:42:39 GMT 12
more like a court martial. With the equipment that ship had there will be no excuse for running aground,unless mechanical failure,even then not an excuse. Looking old world navigators. Got from England back England using a compass/sextant no charts. She'll be cleared and have a new command within 12 months. And you know this how? |
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mihit
Junior Member
Posts: 81
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Post by mihit on Oct 6, 2024 17:06:07 GMT 12
I'm going to come out now and say the CO's gender and sexuality has nothing to do with the reason for the grounding, Correct, and without pips they're not exactly handing out the keys to big grey boats
BUT, there has been a whole bunch of woke nonsense that could have contributed to someone being promoted above their level of incompetence.
However she got to the big comfy chair, this is a serious SNAFU and presumably multiple failures in her duty.
I'm glad everyone got out of this one unharmed.
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mihit
Junior Member
Posts: 81
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Post by mihit on Oct 6, 2024 17:26:03 GMT 12
A couple of people will claim they genuinely cannot be held response in any way: 1. The Defence Minster 2. The ship’s chef. The chef will have a fair point. Funny. She started her navy career as a cook, expecting the government, asides from housing, feeding and training her, to give her start-up capital when she quit. (She didn't quit obviously) I guess now it's |
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Post by fish on Oct 6, 2024 18:35:48 GMT 12
So, apparently the ship had finished surveying for the day, and at 6:46pm hit the reef. The order to abandon was given at 7:52, so 1hr 6 minutes later. That relatively short timeframe to order abandon indicates it was very serious from the get go. What also sounds concerning is the apparent time the crew were in liferafts. The first people were rescued at 1am Sunday, and all people weren't rescued until 5:35am. Meaning crew were in liferafts all night, 9 hours ish. I know that rescues take time, but it gives some context for us sitting at home infront of our computers just how much of a major this was. Simply keeping track of where everyone was in the dark would have been complicated. I actually feel bad for the CO and crew. We don't know what happened yet, but the ship is gone. Huge speculation about all aspects of the CO. What is also sad is this was probably the most useful boat the navy had. Used in Cyclone Gabrielle recovery, the predecessor was used in Kaikoura EQ recovery for re-charting the harbour. And the basic fact that all our chart data comes from this ship, or ships doing this role. Frigates are largely useless in the NZ context. The Canterbury is most use for disaster recovery - pivotal in both Chch and Kaikoura EQ's, and the new Aotea is also useful in disaster recover to some extent, big water maker, can ship containers and has it's own deck cranes etc. Now my big concern is the govt wont say what actually happened, they'll kick it all to a Commission of Inquiry and bury it for 5 years, or at least until after the next election. That way they wont need to deal with bad news or difficult questions. Boat wasn't much different in age to the rail ferries. If it turns out the ship went dark / lost power and drifted onto the reef, the maritime unions will make mischief until the new rail ferry options are announced. But given the time to abandonment, it doesn't sound like it just drifted onto the reef... www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350441849/hmnzs-manawanui-what-happened-after-ship-ran-aground |
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dp
Full Member
Posts: 135
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Post by dp on Oct 6, 2024 18:36:30 GMT 12
She'll get a medal for saving the crew. Well deserved What recognition will she get for flushing $150m of taxpayers money down the toilet when our hospitals are crying out for money. How many life saving operations would $150m buy |
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Post by fish on Oct 6, 2024 19:30:15 GMT 12
Just looking at the charts for where the Manawanui sunk. There is a large patch that has zero chart information, it is just blank. It runs along the coast in a moderately narrow but long patch, ranging from 45m on the shore side to 90m on the ocean side. The ship would have had to have crossed that patch to get into the nearby harbour, Safata Bay / Safata Harbour. And, just a tad to the west of the location of sinking, the charts have a major mis-match. There is a vertical line where details suddenly change and there are inconsistencies on each side in chart information. You can clearly see why a survey ship needed to be there. I wonder if they were working in dodgy water and the current charts were wrong, and they've just hit something that wasn't on the chart? I'll work out if I can post a screen shot. I'm just using navionics, or whatever the Garmin name is for their web-maps now, it's a bit average. If anyone has a better chart, maybe Open CPN or actual charts for that area, it would be interesting to know how accurate the charts look?  |
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Post by Cantab on Oct 6, 2024 19:55:40 GMT 12
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Post by em on Oct 6, 2024 19:58:11 GMT 12
I’m surprised they were surveying on the south coast at this time of the year . Summer would’ve been a better bet as there is less southerly swell . Winter you surf the south coast and get the south pacific winter storm swell and summer you surf the north side and get North Pacific winter storm swell .
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Post by eri on Oct 6, 2024 20:22:30 GMT 12
if you don't appoint the most competent people
you won't get the best possible outcomes
i hope we hear
if selection processes now incorporate ideological based weighting
that allows leap-frogging the 'most competent'
i don't believe
nz's 2nd rate productivity
can afford much self-inflicted damage
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Post by fish on Oct 6, 2024 20:36:07 GMT 12
I’m surprised they were surveying on the south coast at this time of the year . Summer would’ve been a better bet as there is less southerly swell . Winter you surf the south coast and get the south pacific winter storm swell and summer you surf the north side and get North Pacific winter storm swell . They clearly don't have enough CO's that surf. So much for DEI. |
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Post by harrytom on Oct 6, 2024 22:05:52 GMT 12
Bit of theme going there with female captains? |
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Post by eri on Oct 7, 2024 8:47:13 GMT 12
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mihit
Junior Member
Posts: 81
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Post by mihit on Oct 7, 2024 11:32:11 GMT 12
Just looking at the charts for where the Manawanui sunk. There is a large patch that has zero chart information, it is just blank. It runs along the coast in a moderately narrow but long patch, ranging from 45m on the shore side to 90m on the ocean side. The ship would have had to have crossed that patch to get into the nearby harbour, Safata Bay / Safata Harbour. And, just a tad to the west of the location of sinking, the charts have a major mis-match. There is a vertical line where details suddenly change and there are inconsistencies on each side in chart information. You can clearly see why a survey ship needed to be there. I wonder if they were working in dodgy water and the current charts were wrong, and they've just hit something that wasn't on the chart? I'll work out if I can post a screen shot. I'm just using navionics, or whatever the Garmin name is for their web-maps now, it's a bit average. If anyone has a better chart, maybe Open CPN or actual charts for that area, it would be interesting to know how accurate the charts look? View Attachment
Latest data looks to be LINZ 2008 ![]() |
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Post by eri on Oct 7, 2024 11:50:10 GMT 12
"We bought Manawanui knowing she was not a war ship, she's a commercial operation... but with that comes a risk and the risk is that commercial vessels do not have the same level of redundancy in their systems or their design that warships do - you can't seal off compartments, create water tight compartments and keep the vessel afloat so that it can be towed, salvaged and repaired.
"That's because they were dealing with high seas, they were dealing with a reef that has changed, and people should also remember, this reef hasn't been surveyed since 1987 and since then there have been earthquakes, there's been tsunamis, there's been changes to that reef and that's why that survey was taking place."
Naval ships don't have replacement insurance, Judith Collins told Morning Report.
"Never have had...There are some things around insurance but I cannot go into that for the very sensible reasons for anybody who has ever dealt with insurance companies, you have to be very careful and therefore I'm not going to go into it."
If they did, the minister said they would have massive premiums.www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/530004/it-s-my-ship-and-i-m-gutted-former-minister-ron-mark-on-manawanui-sinking
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